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shoot you in the head is my rob zombie cover band ([info]zombiephile) wrote,
@ 2012-01-21 14:31:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
a continuation of yesterday
I've been reading y'all's comments on my question about fat wizards yesterday, and y'all have awesome points. But, now that I'm less almost-asleep, I wanted to expand a bit upon more what I was talking about.

I know in the movies and in RP, wizards are generally by default "pretty" simply because we have Hollywood to thank for that: actors and actresses were cast in the movies, and they're pretty people, and the people we have to choose from for PBs for RP are actors, actresses, musicians, models, etc, and they are generally rather pretty, too.

I was focusing more on in the books. I haven't read them in a while (that might be my next series reread), so I might just not be remembering properly, but ... well.

Harry was raised a muggle. He might be a wizard, but he comes into the wizarding world the same way the rest of us do: with an outsider, muggle perspective on everything. It's a great plot device to introduce the reader to a new world and rules without having to outright go with Department Of Backstory, or "Oh, Ron, I know exactly how this works, and so do you, but let's talk about it anyway just ... because." Which means, regardless of what wizards raised in the wizarding world might think of beauty, our main narrator is an outsider like us, so he's bringing with him the same muggle prejudices we do.

And, yes, we don't get a lot of physical description of a lot of characters, and a lot of them just have a few flyaway comments about them: Hannah Abbott's blonde braids, or Hestia Jones' rosy cheeks and black hair, or Emmeline Vance's ~stateliness.

But he does very specifically seem to note people who, to his "muggle" perspective, are particularly skinny (Trelawney) or particularly large (Dudley & Vernon, Crabbe & Goyle, Millicent, Fudge, Sluggy, and everyone else that y'all mentioned in comments). I remember reading somewhere (an article or book on description and reader prejudice) that, with lack of description, the reader tends to "fill in the blanks" with a general sense of "normality": they either picture all the non-described people as looking more or less like themselves, or they picture the non-described people as more-or-less resembling the main, narrative character (in the case of HP: white and relatively "normal" in terms of weight).

It feels sort of like JKR is doing this with the vast majority of the wizarding world: by introducing us to the wizarding world by way of a muggle-raised character who doesn't know anything about this world and has similar body image prejudices that we have (though, admittedly, Harry's are British and a little less Hollywood-directed than ours here in the States), and then specifically identifying some characters as overweight and some characters as underweight, she is sort of indicating that everyone else in the wizarding world is a more normal, healthy weight, because our muggle-prejudiced guide into this world isn't noting "wow, all these people are particularly heavier than the majority of the muggles I've grown up around!"


idek if I'm explaining my thoughts right, but ... idk. Though I do like the idea of the magic itself sort of burning calories (so does that mean that since Trelawney's a stick, she's super-duper magical?), or the wizards basically being able to use magic to make themselves look (or even actually be; magical weightloss?) skinnier.

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[info]bafflednoob
2012-01-21 09:07 pm UTC (link)
I didn't jump into the last conversation, but I think it has partly to do with the fact that in the majority, people don't notice weight unless it's one way or the other in the extreme. You can tell when someone's too skinny or too overweight, but there's just a good 30 pounds in there where people are a normal weight or maybe just a little plump, but it's not really a detail I'd give. Like if I was talking about someone I knew, and they were maybe a tiny bit plump or a healthy weight, I wouldn't even think to say "they are of medium weight." On the other hand "she's super skinny" or "she's overweight" is something that would come to mind much quicker as a description.

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[info]zombiephile
2012-01-21 09:15 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, that was basically the point I was trying to make, that with the lack of noting people's weights, it's sort of imiplying that they're average, or "of medium weight." Which is what had prompted my original question of why so much of the wizarding population seems to be of average or medium weight with the rather sedentary lifestyle they seem to lend themselves to, and why there are so few overweight characters that they're particularly notable.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]bafflednoob
2012-01-21 09:26 pm UTC (link)
Maybe they eat right and find exercise in their own ways? I think the reason why it's called an average weight is because it's average; most people are withing a few dozen pounds of their target weight. Of course we see obesity rising in some places, but it doesn't change the fact that in general most of the population is of a middle weight, so why wouldn't it be in the wizard world? And it's not like all of the average people in our world work out every day or do a lot of walking or even particularly eat right.

Basically what I'm saying is just because we only see Quidditch as their major sports event, that doesn't mean they never do anything else. It might have been a detail JK Rowling just didn't feel like getting around to defining too much. And they can say accio and find things, and they can teleport if they want to, but they seemed to still do a fair amount of walking around too. And also she's only given us a glimpse into part of the Wizard world, we only see one school (except for the glimpses of the other schools) and it's probably not a huge percentage of the actual population. There could be tons of overweight or underweight witches that she just never bothered to fill in the blanks about.

Really it seems she gets behind average weight/size people the most, which is nice if you think about it. Sure in general the characters in the movie were attractive enough, but none of them were super duper attractive if you think about it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ginge
2012-01-21 10:20 pm UTC (link)
they have dance offs everyday in the hall but harry never won so he didn't talk about it?

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[info]eyeball_tree
2012-01-22 12:00 am UTC (link)
Because he's the boy who lived with two left feet :(

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[info]squidtastic
2012-01-23 05:04 pm UTC (link)
I just legit LOLd. Still bummed there's no 'like' button on IJ. I could get away with not having to pointlessly comment to these things. It ruins their beauty.

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[info]makelovestay
2012-01-21 10:39 pm UTC (link)
There's also the fact that Harry grew up with Vernon and Dudley has his example of 'fatness', and we're pretty much told that they are huge individuals. It could that he just doesn't recognize anyone that isn't somehow comparable with Dudley and Vernon's size as being overweight and since we're introduced to the world through Harry's perspective, we're not given the ability to either?

(Reply to this)


[info]eyeball_tree
2012-01-22 12:37 am UTC (link)
I have a half written comment on the first post so I'll bring it over here:

I've kind of come across that a few times in making characters though and addressing physical strength. Where I can't figure out where or why it'd come from, unless they had a set reason to work for it. I mean, there's not even the necessity to be able to do heavy lifting when a flick of a wand would do the same. Don't run, apparate. Even something like quidditch is more like a sport on horseback where physicality matters, but more in a lower leg sort of way. You don't need the same endurance to ride a horse (fly a broom) as you do to run around for ages. So a lot of times, it does feel like there is sometimes a bit of fluffing matters. But then, there is a lot of physical activity in Hogwarts aged kids--if nothing else, all those damn stairs all the time have to count for something.

It's always something I've been a bit mindful of, even since my aol chat roleplay days where everyone was 5'10, 105 lbs, and buxom to the nth. Either by challenging that or questioning it.

Though I've certainly played characters who I saw as a overweight or at least doughy for either age or lifestyle reasons. Florean, Slughorn, Arthur Weasley, Abraxas, Crabbe, even Moody and Crouch Sr. to a point, a lot of that had to do with poor eating habits, or (though now that I think on it, I've not played an overweight female character--interesting). And I've played female characters who had been heavier at one point, or were at least conscious of/concerned about their weight, but truth be told. But for the most part, characters have had average eating habits, average enough activity levels, and average enough bodies (though pb'd by models and actors).

I know my two most athletic characters, probably Hooch and Ganymede, my hitwizard, have both been a bit of health freaks. The hitwizard actually had a weight bench in his flat, and ran daily, and trained at work and shit; Hooch, you know that girl does exercise and shit, so she can break her neck on stairs. But I know in my Crabbe app, I sort of had to come up with a how he'd be good at punching people things.

I mean, really, looking at it, there are a decent number of larger witches and wizards in HP-verse. I've mentioned loads of male, but Umbridge is squat, Millicent's implied to be bigger, I think I've seen Peter played as doughier, Sprout's plump I believe. Perhaps some of it is Rowling just doesn't mention it a lot? I mean, the same sort of things happened like when it came out that Blaise was black (lol, or male). That does not mentioning something really reflect an assumption of default? and to what point how is default defined?

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[info]corporatecake
2012-01-22 04:09 am UTC (link)
I'd argue we do see quite a lot of characters who are described as being some flavor of 'fat,' whether it be plump, rotund, large, what have you. And the vast majority of characters, we don't get any sense of their weight. I mean, we never even get a description of Hermione's body type. I always pictured her average, maybe with a bit of pre-puberty pudge, but it's not specified.

Anyway, I think that most children would be in at least as good of shape as Muggle children, considering they can't do magic, and traveling around Hogwarts seems to require quite a lot of energy. (All those stairs? No thank you.) No, Hogwarts doesn't have a phys ed program, but be real. Did gym class really encourage you to be active?

Also, I think that people are kind of underwriting Quidditch as a way of staying fit. Have you ever ridden a horse? It's hard work. You're using all sorts of muscles in your legs, back, and even arms to do that. Presumably, riding a broom would use similar muscles, and more of them, because it takes place on a three dimensional plane. It also ignores the idea that competitive athletes (and Hogwarts Quidditch is competitive sports) have to be in good shape generally. Equestrians, javelin throwers, even serious bowlers stay in good shape, regardless of how 'sedentary' their respective sports are. Sure, Quidditch may not involve hard running, but that doesn't mean that it's not a good work out.

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[info]lipsofpoison
2012-01-22 01:49 pm UTC (link)
I do like the idea of the magic itself sort of burning calories

That's how it works in Charmed - the bigger the magic (like their version of apparition), the more it burns.

(Reply to this)


[info]squidtastic
2012-01-23 05:05 pm UTC (link)
There are also people with high metabolism things that whatsherface could have. I have friends who HAVE to eat so many times a day but they never gain weight like..ever. And me, if I didn't eat a few times a day, I'd lose weight.

It's jut how things work, I think. In muggle ways.

(Reply to this)



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